In the latest issue of Education Next, James Peyser argues that “overpromising” undercut the ed reform movement, in which he played a prominent role for three decades in a series of roles—from education advisor to two governors to chairman of the State Board of Education and, most recently, Massachusetts secretary of education, from which he stepped down earlier this year. Peyser is currently an academic visitor at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government and a senior advisor for America Achieves and Bellwether Education Partners.
In your Education Next piece, you list four basic components of the education reform playbook of the last few decades: standards, assessment, and accountability; innovative schools, instructional tools, and systems, including ed tech; robust teacher recruitment and training; and autonomous schools and parent choice. With the benefits of hindsight, were those the right levers?
I would say yes. I think they were and still are the right elements, but doing them well isn’t so easy, and sustaining them over time isn’t so easy, either. I still think these are all worthy projects for policymakers to be involved in, but at the end of the day, they’re necessary but not sufficient to achieve the ambitious goals we set for ourselves about raising the overall level of learning and closing disparities among various communities and student subgroups.
Surely, some of those have borne more fruit than others. Which are you most sanguine about going forward?
Unfortunately, I think all of them are at risk, either because they are still under direct assault from long-standing opponents or because policymakers and ed reformers have lost interest or shifted their focus to other things. Underlying this trend, I think, is a public narrative that this package of policies hasn’t really produced much, in terms of better or more equitable student outcomes. I think the data suggest that in fact these reforms have been very successful, at least pre-Covid, but not as successful as had been promised or expected. From my perspective, we need to defend and sustain the basic reform infrastructure of the past twenty–thirty years, while paying far more attention to the scalable evidence-based programs and practices that are delivering positive results in the classroom.
Can I push back a little on the efficacy of standards? It feels to me like the challenge was never setting standards, but meeting them.
I was fairly skeptical about standards-based reform at first because it felt like we were trying to tell teachers how they should do their business. Instead, we ought to be getting out of their way, while breaking up the monopoly structure of public education by giving parents more power and opportunity to make choices if they aren’t satisfied with the education their children are getting. But over time, it became increasingly clear to me that in too many schools and districts across the entire system, but especially in low-income communities, there was a complacent attitude towards student achievement and outcomes or a belief that schools cannot overcome the challenges of poverty. Getting the state involved was the only way to lean in against other forces that were pushing the system away from higher expectations for all students, whether it’s schools of education, the teachers unions, or education bureaucracies. There needed to be some other intervention to break up the inertia. And state governments were the only ones that had enough heft to actually move the system, or at least influence it in a positive direction. Obviously, that’s fraught with risk because you can go in the wrong direction and make things worse. But it seemed like parent choice or, if you will, a more open educational marketplace alone was not a sufficiently strong counterweight to make a difference in terms of broader or system-wide outcomes.
School choice seems to be the dominant driver now, at least on the right. You don’t sound optimistic that it will yield better results than the last thirty years of reform.
When I think about how I originally got into this work, it was much more around charter schools and choice, and through the lens of letting educators teach and getting the monopolistic district bureaucracy out of the way. I still think that’s a good thing, but also in the “necessary not sufficient” category. Just letting schools or individual teachers do whatever they want and having parents vote with their feet unfortunately doesn’t produce the kind of results that we’d like—at least not at scale. The tricky part is that there certainly are educators who know what they’re doing, who get great results—actually, a lot of them. The problem is that when you try to standardize across a one-best way or a very narrow set of practices or tools, systems, and curricula, you inevitably run into trouble—in part because you can’t force people to do something they don’t believe in and in part because one size really doesn’t fit all. It’s also possible, in fact it’s pretty certain, that mistakes or bad decisions will be made, which will negatively affect everyone, instead of just one school or classroom.
The idea of predicating reform on attracting the cognitive elite into our classrooms feels to me like something that, in retrospect, we would do differently.
Directionally, it still makes sense to try to try to get the best people we can into the field. I mean, why would you do otherwise? But even if you love the work, it may not always be a rewarding career. It seems to me that one of the problems is the sense that many teachers have when they enter a school, especially teachers with other career options, that they don’t have enough control over their destiny in their own classroom, that they’re not succeeding with their students, or the work environment is just sort of oppressively bureaucratic. You can only stand that for so long. If you’re someone who’s got options, you’re going to move on to something else. If you see yourself as a cog in a great wheel, you can very quickly lose your enthusiasm, even if you love the children. But there’s no enterprise that will succeed for very long without a strong human capital pipeline. We need to constantly be working on that. So, yes, we can’t say that we’ll fail unless we get only the brightest, smartest people in the world, but I think we should probably be setting our sights higher than we are, while at the same time providing better support for the educators we have.
Is it my imagination or did ed reform just give a pass to ed schools?
There was a lot of emphasis on alternative certification pathways that generated a fair amount of traction, and TFA is an example of this, but we seemed to just run out of gas. Part of it may be the collective bargaining agreements that still compensated people for graduate degrees, as well as district hiring practices that didn’t change all that much. But the other part is that, as hard as K–12 education reform is, higher ed is worse. Taking on the ed schools or trying to reform colleges and universities is just such a daunting and prolonged challenge that maybe people just gave up.
I’ve heard David Steiner, who was state ed commissioner in New York, say, “We’ve got the power of accreditation. We’ve got the power of certification. Why are we afraid to use it?”
That’s true. Part of my role as secretary in Massachusetts was to oversee public higher education and serve on the Board of Higher Education. On the one hand, the board had a great deal of power because of its authority to approve degree programs. But, typically, once the board confers degree-granting authority to a college, you’re set for the rest of eternity. The board has authority to revisit those programs, evaluate their quality, and make judgments, but as far as I know, it’s never been done. Separately, our Board of Elementary and Secondary Education oversees teacher prep programs at colleges and universities, as part of the educator certification system. And similarly, that authority is underutilized—although, just over the last year, the Massachusetts Department of Elementary and Secondary Education issued a rubric and a set of standards specific to education programs that clarify that the department and the board have the authority to decertify an individual program within a school of education, without de-certifying the entire school or department. So, for example, if your elementary reading program is teaching balanced literacy or whole language and doing nothing about phonics, based on criteria they have now established, the department could say, “You’re no longer authorized to certify elementary school teachers.” We’ll see if that goes anywhere, but at a minimum it’s now put the ed schools on notice.
There was a line in your Education Next piece that frankly struck me as a bit depressing, about the “breakdown in the shared understanding of what educational excellence means” and the purpose of our schools in the first place. If we can’t agree on what we’re doing, then how can we shape policy to do it?
I think it’s hugely problematic. The glimmer of hope is that I do think the average American parent, and I would like to think the average educator, actually has a pretty traditional understanding of what schools and schooling are supposed to be about, namely preparing young people for college, career, and citizenship. And the large majority of parents still believe their own children are going to good schools. Unfortunately, activists and advocates are filling the air time and creating a public narrative that schools are not just failing to live up to expectations in terms of student learning, but are actually a big part of the problems we’re having as a society. From the left, you hear that schools are drivers of the school-to-prison pipeline and from the right that they’re indoctrinating our kids to become social justice warriors. And, of course, you still hear the argument, most regularly from the teachers unions, that until you end poverty and racism, schools won’t really matter and it’s giving false hope to students to believe that if they just get straight A’s, everything’s going to be fine. My hypothesis is that the center still holds, but it’s a fragile silent majority that’s being drowned out by these other voices, and it needs some organized support, which at the moment seems to be absent.
It’s not lost upon me that the movement that once insisted poverty isn’t determinative now insists race is. My hunch is that’s how ed reform explains its failures to itself.
I think there’s something to that, at least among some people and organizations that have been part of the reform movement since the beginning. Look, poverty and race really do matter, and they need to be taken into account as part of any strategy for educational improvement. But there’s no question that poor children and children of color can and do learn at the highest levels, and that by doing so, they unlock life-changing opportunities for themselves and their families. Saying or implying that, no matter how hard you work or how much you learn, your life chances will ultimately be determined by factors beyond your control—it’s not only incredibly demoralizing, it’s also wrong, and it can become a convenient excuse for the adults and a self-fulfilling prophecy for the students that perpetuates inequality.
So it seems there’s a lot to be discouraged about, but what gives you hope?
As I said earlier, I think the majority of parents and educators are still focused on the right things and still think the basic architecture of education reform is sound. That’s a good place to start. I also think there are a number of programs and practices that are not only working well for students, but are getting increasing traction in the field and with policymakers. Things like the science of reading, early college, career pathways, and expanded vocational-technical education. The focus on evaluating curriculum and professional development based on student outcomes continues to gain acceptance. I’m encouraged by the growing interest in high-dosage tutoring and the renewed focus on civics education, although I’m concerned about prioritizing activism over knowledge and informed civil discourse.